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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
19
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Posted - 2013.12.12 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Second, It's really not getting a covert cloak . This is an extremely powerful capability and it's possible that it should stay off limits for battleships completely. On top of that, if there was going to be a covert battleship, black ops is where we need to start. We will be looking at them for a balance pass eventually, they are one of the remaining classes that haven't gotten their tiericide pass yet, and we can approach this topic when that happens.
Define eventually. Are we talking a few days, weeks, months, years, or decades? I understand you have to speak in generalities because you don't want to make hard commitments, but there are other ways to do this. You could say "I would like to tackle those after we do tech 3s." or "Those will realistically be the last subcaps we touch before doing the capital balance pass.", in both cases no definite timetable was mentioned, no promises were made, but it gives the players some sort of clue as to where they fit on the agenda. Although I have a sinking feeling that the second one is likely to be closer to the truth. As someone who specializes in deep space exploration in hostile null using blops I was REALLY hoping for the ship to come with a jump drive. But if you want to wait for the Blops balance pass to have this discussion, thats fine; I'll wait. Its just as well I guess. It gives me a reason to put off training Amarr BS 5.
Although you might want to have this conversation before next years Eve Vegas. I will be attending and I must warn you that I can be extremely persistent when drinking :)
CCP Rise wrote:Last, I'm seeing some complaints or concerns that it feels kind of all over the place. This is definitely intentional. In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few. The hacking and probing bonuses are a good example of that here. We didn't choose them over something else that would make the ship a powerful fighter, we just included them to give the ship more options.
I honestly think emulating the Gnosis is a bad idea. The jack of all trades argument works well for the other two, they have a low enough price point and built in mobility to make them an attractive ship for hostile space exploration, where you have to be mostly self sufficient and able to perform multiple roles to be effective. However this ship is going to be extremely costly and has no extra built in mobility. Will nullsec residents use it? Absolutely. Will lowsec residents use it? Absolutely. But as an exploration themed ship the real goal should be to get people to go out and actually explore areas of space they are not familiar with. IE places where they are not part of the local intel channels. The high price point and lack of mobility make this ship an absolutely terrible choice for this.
Answer this. What reason do I have to use this ship in place of alternatives that are not only cheaper, but also do the job more efficiently? For the Stratios and Astero the answer is because you are likely to be too far from home to swap out ships in a timely manner and/or you need the extra mobility to get to your objective and the more efficient options are unlikely to survive the trip.
For the Nestor? I honestly can't think of anything.
And can you please explain the reasoning behind the 7/6/6 slot layout? Its got a mid slot I have no clue what to do with and one less low slot than it needs to be effective at the one thing i would realistically use this ship for. Wormhole diving. Can we please go with a 7/5/7 layout instead.
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Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
19
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Posted - 2013.12.12 14:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Joker Dronemaster wrote:Define eventually. Are we talking a few days, weeks, months, years, or decades? Black Ops ships will be rebalanced after Marauders but before T3s. T3s will be rebalanced last before capitals. If I remember correctly, Pirate ships will be rebalanced after T2s and before T3s. Capitals will be rebalanced last.
Wonderful information.
Got a source to link for reference? |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.16 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:So it looks like the RR range thing is all that has been changed since this thread started. Hmm. I still don't see an exploration battleship when I look at this thing. I see a gimped Domi with tacked on bonuses.
No one sees an exploration battleship. Which is why it breaks theme with the other two. We all looked at the Astero and saw a covops exploration frigate, then we looked at the Stratios and clearly saw a covops exploration cruiser. When we got word of the Nestor anyone with two brain cells to rub together realized it wouldn't get a covops cloak, but most people looked at the theme of the other two and saw where they were going. Black ops. It's the only thing that made sense.
Then they posted the official stats for it and we all did a collective "What the F***!?!?". I doesn't matter what bonuses they give it, or how they tweak it. Without a jump drive it will NEVER keep the theme of the other two. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
NESTOR
Amarr Battleship Bonuses: 4% Armor resistances per level
Gallente Battleship Bonuses: 10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
Role bonuses: 50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount 50% increased strength for scan probes +10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers Can jump to covert or regular cynosural fields Can not fit Covert Jump Portal Generator I
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric Signature radius: 465 Cargo Capacity: 700 Jump Range: 3.5 ly
Got rid of the useless mid slot, added a needed low slot, and gave it a jump drive. Not letting it bridge keeps it from stepping on the toes of Blops ships too much. And kept the r3tard3d bonuses for scanning and hacking so that r3tards will get ganked while using them. Hilarious kill mails make everyone happy.
TL;DR Fixed it. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.17 06:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:Disciple Cax: your idea is interesting, but it's really weird and kind of unrealistic. Plus, you'd have to take into consideration all sorts of other things.
Joker Dronemaster: Eh. I like the Jump drive, but you basically turned it into an exploration pseudo-black ops dominix/sin, without covert bridging. The mid slots are useful, too- it can use those effectively. I'm fine with the current layout, especially now that we have mobile depots to mix things up with in-space.
The ship is good as is. A jump drive would be great, but it's good as it.
I'll take it the way it is now and fly it anyways- I've been waiting for this ship since the Astero and Stratios were announced
what would yo use the mid slot for?
my proposed fit
[Nestor, New Setup 1] Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Tank Mod Tank Mod Tank Mod Tank Mod
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Large Micro Jump Drive 100MN Afterburner II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Armor Repairer II Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II Improved Cloaking Device II Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor II [empty rig slot] - Up to you [empty rig slot] - Up to you
This is cap stable and gives you a MJD for sticky situations. Heck you've even got 2 rig slots left to play with. I honestly can't think of anything you could put in the extra mid except for ECM or maybe a target painter. And even if you actually used this thing for relic and data sites or scanning you can just drop a mobile depot and swap out mods as needed.
What would you use the mid slot for in PvE? Or rather What would you use it for that outweighs having an extra low slot for tank or DPS? |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.17 06:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:7-6-6 is fine, but yours would be alright too. I just like the ship already
I'm a firm believer in alts. So i would never use this ship solo.
So basically your a fanbio who would like the ship if it came with an 8/8/3 layout...... got it. *sarcasm*
And also what content would you use this ship for? I would use it to run high end dead space content in null. So my needs in a ship might be a bit different from yours. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.17 08:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:Joker Dronemaster wrote:I'm a firm believer in alts. So i would never use this ship solo. So basically your a fanbio who would like the ship if it came with an 8/8/3 layout...... got it. *sarcasm* And also what content would you use this ship for? I would use it to run high end dead space content in null. So my needs in a ship might be a bit different from yours. I do see your point- but when I go out deep, I tend to fly something cheaper than this I'd probably not use it much outside of PVE and probably wormholes, given it's design. I love the ship, but it'll be too expensive to fly around for a while. And yes, I mostly play solo
Flying solo gives you even more incentive to want a 7/5/7 layout.
local rep, 3 tank mods, and 3 damage mods.
Otherwise your going to be using 2 tank 3 damage or 3 tank 2 damage. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.17 22:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Guys, it's supposed to be a w-space useable battleship, and it's actually pretty good in that respect without being overpowered.
The problem is that because it's on SoE LP, it's just too expensive. If it were in literally any other LP store, it would be fine.
And therein lies the problem.
Its not a bad ship, in fact its actually very good. Its just a bad SoE ship. If this ship BPC were a drop from the rouge drone 10/10 (It actually exists, or so I hear) or anywhere else it would be a great ship. But at it stands its too cost prohibitive for what it brings to the table and without a jump drive it breaks the theme of the sisters ships. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
23
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Posted - 2013.12.18 02:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:Ya know what, I think we're going about this all wrong. Everybody is trying to make this ship more coherent and useful. I think we should all just brainstorm role bonuses that we could keep adding to the hull without ever making it OP. Let's make it the hull of a 100 nearly useless bonuses. The less useful the better.
Like....
-50% cap usage of salvagers. +50% target painter falloff. +10 to drone sensor strength. 25% increase to firework rate of fire. Can Fit Snowball De-melter.
Brilliant!
+25% to cycle time of stasis webs |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.29 06:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mhari Dson wrote:Looking at the discussion so far (didn't read it all but enough to get a decent idea) this thing is missing a leg and has 3 arms....
Ok so you sound intelligent so far.......................
Mhari Dson wrote:As for the bonuses as currently noted... crap give it up and give it covops or a no cyno required jumpdrive
And now you've lost me.
Translation............ I'm too cheap to pay for an alt.
How will you select the system you want to go to? A drop down menu? Text input box?
A drop down menu would be cumbersome to say the very least. Check this link for an idea of how many systems youd have to cram into it. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Sin,5/E1F-LK I hope you have a big monitor...........
And a text input box just sounds annoying to use. |
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Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mhari Dson wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Mhari Dson wrote:4 lows on the astero worked out to provide a reasonably resilient frig. 5 lows on the strat provides an underperforming cruiser tank 6 lows on a battleship means it'll be a joke in a firefight any of the other faction BS's could handle.
With the pricetag of the ship bieng far beyond that of any other faction BS it's wow factor should be at least equal to the current iterations of the Vindicator or Machariel. Up the ante or watch it just be a hangar decoration.
As for this bieng an answer to logis getting to fly something other than a cruiser..... a guardian or oneiros will still outperform it with ease.
But astero and stratios did thier job as exploration ships so their lower pvp aplications was acceptable. Nestor will not. We have marauders, machs and vindis for high end PvE. With 6 low slots and T1 resists I dont see this ship flying C5 capital spawn. So really give it 7 low slot because it won't be exploring anything anyway... Instead of a 6/6/6 layout it should have a 5/5/8, after all it's not a SOCT ship, it's turrets are decorative, and it's an armor tanker and designed using aspects off 2 armor tanking races.
Every time I try to theory craft a fitting for either the BS or cruiser I always find myself having one less low than i really need and one mid slot I don't really know what to do with.
I think the cruiser should be 5/4/6 and the Nestor should be 7/5/7. you need some highs for link augs and such. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.30 22:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Roy Alleyne wrote:I believe the slot layout is intentionally set up for a nonspecific tank. The ambiguous layout provides for multiple potential fitting styles and potential for flexible combinations. Just because it doesn't cater to your limited EFT Fu does not mean it should be changed. With this layout you can choose any two of these with ease: dps, application, tank. If you can't see how those options mesh then you just need to think outside the box and see the truth of what this Internet spaceship can do.
My EFT Fu is not the one that is limited. If you cant see the benefits of a ship having the majority of its slots focused into its primary tank then, Im sorry but your beyond all hope of help. 5 mid slots is plenty to fit a prop mod 3 projection mods and still have a slot left over for utility, on the lows a 4/3 tank/dps spread is preferable to a 4/2 or 3/3.
Roy Alleyne wrote:That said, if you had read the thread you would already know that the ship falls short in any traditional role and, unlike the Stratios and Astero, has very limited use in even untraditional niche roles. While most people understand that this ship will never be effective as a traditional ship, a number of options have been discussed in order to allow it to fill niche roles effectively.
And if you had read the thread you would already know i have already weighed in on several of those discussions. K, thanks, BYE!
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Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.30 22:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:the ship is okay, you people like to whine for everything.........each time a new ship gets announced in a thread, you complain and the damned thing gets nerfed to hell........i would gladly ask everyone to NOT **** THIS HULL!
I've only seen like one or 2 retards complain about this ship being over powered. The majority of people are weighing in on how to make it viable. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.31 09:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Celia Therone wrote:My EFT fu is weak though, so perhaps I missed something?
Remote Rep potential.
You have to consider the optimal use of the ship. Not how you specifically would use it and this ship is designed to be used with other people on field (or lets just be honest and admit alts). An optimal Nestor setup would have it paired with another Nestor. Little busy with housework atm if someone wants to run those numbers. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
24
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Posted - 2013.12.31 10:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
LOL Read my edit. I decided the dishes can wait........... |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
26
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Posted - 2014.01.01 03:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
I am disposable wrote:Joker Dronemaster wrote: Why am I going to pay 1.5 to 2 billion isk for a lateral shift in ship efficiency?
Because you have more money than sense, and prefer the aesthetics of a handheld blender to that of a shoe?
Unfortunately neither of those things are true............. |
Joker Dronemaster
Frontier Explorer's League Nulli Secunda
26
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Posted - 2014.01.02 04:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
This thread is starting to need CPR. i wish a blue would go ahead and post............. something. Actually I take that back, i wish a blue would post something useful. |
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